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Malala Yousafzai on the Frontlines: Exploring Contemporary Issues, Rights, and Resilience of Pashtun Women Under Patriarchy and Taliban Influence

Malala Yousafzai, Ziauddin Yousafzai, and Imran Ali

These in-depth interviews, with Nobel Laureate Malala Yousafzai and her father, Ziauddin Yousafzai, were conducted by Imran Ali, PhD, Assistant Professor of Literature at the University of Haripur Pakistan, on August 17, 2015, and September 9, 2019, respectively. The text was revised in 2025, with additional questions from Miranda Outman, managing editor of Signs, to align with the current context. 

Imran Ali: Ziauddin, your book, Let Her Fly, has inspired millions of people around the world to think about ways to promote gender equality and support daughters in stringent patriarchies. How was your life transformed from being raised by a traditional patriarchal Pashtun family to becoming a global advocate for women’s rights, especially in the Pashtun context?

Ziauddin Yousafzai: Thank you for having me here, Ali. I was born on April 20, 1969, into a traditional Pashtun household. In our culture, women are usually positioned in subordinate roles and men are constantly given priority. Keeping his wife, children, sisters, mother, and other family ladies under his authority and control defines a man’s pride in the home. Male family members make all women’s decisions, including social freedom, education, marriage, employment, politics, etc. Health decisions do not even need to be made by women—I never saw my mother’s name on the doctor’s prescription. She was always identified as the mother of Ziauddin or the wife of Rohul Amin (my father). Being provoked by these sheer gender injustices, I wanted to change this absence, invisibility, and lack of identity of women!

When I was filling out the application form for a Canadian visa, I was even unable to recall my sisters’ surnames (in traditional Pashtun cultures females are not given family names) as I had never seen their names on any documents because they had never been written on any before.  At that time, I decided to value my daughter; I decided to give her whatever my father could not give to my sisters.

So, the day I married, I treated my wife, Toor Pekai Yousafzai, with respect as a life partner not as a subordinate of the family. I kept on fighting these gender-biased constraints with a light mood. However, the day I became a father—especially to Malala—was the true turning point of my life. I decided to give her the life that my sister and other family women could not have or even could not think of. When Malala was born, and for the first time, when I looked into her eyes, believe me, I felt honored. I also named her after an ideal legendary Afghan heroine, Malalai of Maiwand (1861-1880), whose reliance and support led the Afghan fighters to victory against the British during the battle of Maiwand, which was part of the Second Anglo-Afghan War. […]. So, I can claim that I was an active advocate of women’s rights even long before I came across the term feminism.

I wanted all my children to succeed regardless of their gender, but I knew that Malala’s chances would never be what I wanted unless I questioned the established frame of the Pashtun patriarchal system about women’s rights. She helped me realize how incredibly unfair the world was to women in our household and around the Pashtun society. In patriarchal societies like mine, fathers are known by their sons. I am one of the few fathers known by his daughter, and I feel proud of it.

You might be thinking, what had changed me to be so different—while its simple answer is “Education.” With the weight of what I had learned, my perspective began to change, and I realized that true honor comes when women are respected, empowered, and supported rather than controlled. I noted that such customs were unfair to a developing community. Malala was instrumental in this change. I remember how her curiosity, bravery, and tenacity inspired me to think about what the world may be like for her … and for all women. To support her in following her ambitions, I was fighting an entire system of gender discrimination and oppression. What started as a personal dedication to Malala evolved into a larger goal: opposing the unfair aspects of patriarchal Pashtun society for women and encouraging their inalienable rights. As our exemplary leader, Batcha Khan (1890-1988), says: “If you wished to know how civilized a culture is, look at how it treats its women.” Today, I think that true honor is to establish an environment where women can thrive, not to belittle, silence, deprive, or destroy them. This has been my life’s ambition. It is now my life’s aim, and it is the central theme of both this interview and my book Let Her Fly.

It was radical and unprecedented for Malala to return to school, speak out against the Taliban’s ban on girls’ education, and pursue her dreams. Because she didn’t fit their patriarchal norms, many complained about my parenting and accused me of endangering her by letting her speak her mind. Despite my worries about Malala’s dismal future, I stood by her side and let her pursue her goals. Because of this choice, I drew closer to Malala and began to respect her position. In addition to her creative abilities, I started to encourage her for more significant responsibilities in society and assured her that she was a genius and unique child. In contrast to what society expected me to do, I urged her to ignore the pressure and criticism from others and pursue her dreams. The Taliban’s prohibition on female education was the most obvious injustice, and she continued to speak out against it without fear.

As a teacher and a supporter of women’s rights, I saw this not only as an issue of empowering Malala via education but also as a matter of our community. I wanted to treat her equally and give her voice value. However, this was about more than just my child; it was also about igniting change for other families in my community and sowing the seeds of a more just society. It was not an easy road. It took persistent relentless scrutiny, opposition, and animosity to stand with Malala during that period of brutal Taliban control. I was still adamant.

As presumably Frederick Douglass (1818-1895) also says, “Knowledge makes a man unfit to be a slave”, education, in my opinion, is the first step toward growth and independence. Being the front door to the house of life, it is the most effective tool for changing lives and having access to all other opportunities in life. I’ve seen firsthand how education can set free the oppressed, the poor, the ignorant, and the mistreated. Early in my profession as a teacher, I realized that education equips students with the skills, knowledge, and confidence to not just imagine a better future but to make it a reality by making their own and other people’s lives better.

Without education, cycles of marginalization and dependency are sustained for both men and women. Defying convention and setting up a place where boys and girls can equally learn together was a daring notion. In addition to academic teaching, I wanted to impart ideals like inclusivity, equality, and respect for one another. I intended to provide every child, regardless of gender, with the resources needed to be free from unfair social norms and to shape their future. To see the same change in my community, I founded the Khushal School in Mingora, Swat in 1994. I have always believed that quality education is the most powerful tool to shape the community. I imagined an entirely different life for my sisters if they had an opportunity to receive quality education. Hence, I was fully committed to educating my daughter and so many other girls in the community. I was happy to see the progress of the institution, but it lasted only for a short time. The Taliban took power and completely banned girls’ education in the region. Malala, unlike the other girls, could not tolerate this injustice. She protested in the best possible ways.

I think education can end this oppressive cycle. Educated women demand their fair share, fight for equality, and spur social change. Education releases potential, inspires bravery, and offers chances; it is more than just literacy or job skills. Education is essentially a life passport. Educated women benefit their families, communities, and countries. To deny education, particularly to women and girls, is to deny humanity’s right to advancement and growth. The belief that education can lower obstacles and lift communities out of poverty and into equality has always been the foundation of my work.

Since education is the cornerstone of any social justice movement, it will always be at the center of my work. We make the world a better, more equitable place through education. For me, education is the first step toward freedom and progress. It is the best instrument for transforming lives. Furthermore, I have witnessed how knowledge can liberate the downtrodden, the impoverished, the ignorant, and the mistreated. Early in my teaching career, I began to understand that education gives people the knowledge, abilities, and self-assurance to not just envision a better future but to bring it to pass by improving both their own and other people’s lives. Lack of education feeds cycles of marginalization and dependency for both men and women. I founded the Khushal School for that reason. It was a daring concept to break with convention and establish a place where girls and boys could equally learn together. I wanted to impart ideals like equality, respect for one another, and inclusivity in addition to academic knowledge. Regardless of gender, I wanted to provide every child with the resources they needed to break free from social norms and shape their own future.

When the Taliban gained power in Swat in 2007, it was extremely risky to support girls’ education. The ideology then deemed education for girls to be wicked in its interpretation of traditionalism and sought to deny girls/women their rights. They threatened anyone who disagreed with them and used violence to impose their beliefs, closing and blowing up schools. It was not appropriate to send any girls to school in such an atmosphere. They preached the exact opposite of what I believed. Even a local clergy blamed my school (Khushal School) for poisoning children’s minds, particularly girls. I actively battled their propaganda through all civil society forums like the Private School Management Association (PSMA), Swat Qumi Jirga, Khushal School, etc. I was under continual threat. I was charged with eroding cultural values and intoxicating the minds of females. It felt like I was walking a tightrope between my family’s safety and my need to educate. Indeed, it was a hard time. We had hardly completed 12 years of school when the Taliban took charge in the region and destroyed almost the whole education system, particularly when they imposed a complete ban on girls’ education. This was the time when Malala raised her voice and used almost every available platform to speak against these cruelties.

Things worsened for us once Malala began to speak out against the Taliban. She boldly demanded that girls should receive an education by using her voice in public and the sparse media. Although that advocacy attracted attention, there were serious risks. I was always afraid that she would provoke the Taliban to the point where they would hurt her. Still, I was not ready to ask her to stop. Her bravery served as a voice for the suffering of Swat’s females.

Fearing the power of her voice, which was rising like a crescendo across the country and beyond, the Taliban attempted to silence her voice forever. It was the realization of our worst nightmares. There was a moment of unfathomable suffering for our family. It was an attempt to stifle free speech and weaken the will of millions of girls who desire an education—not only a crime against her. Malala’s survival was an absolute miracle. Contrary to the Taliban’s perception, the voice of this young girl turned out to be more powerful than the guns and bombs of the Taliban. The girl who was speaking for almost 50, 000 girls of Swat Valley has now become an advocate for millions of out-of-school girls. This was a sea change for our family and the global movement to educate females. Instead of inciting fear, it sparked indignation around the world and brought attention to girls’ education like never before.

Ali: Malala, please, tell us how you overcame the incredibly difficult journey you’ve been through. What gave you the hope to persevere despite the overwhelming odds and seemingly hopeless situation?

Malala Yousafzai: Ali, you are welcome. Thank you for creating this space to talk about an important issue. I have faced considerable challenges. I grew up in the Swat Valley: a beautiful, but deeply conservative region, where most girls and women are still denied their basic rights such as education, autonomy, marital choice, healthcare, and participation in political or professional life. Pashtun society tends to culturally favor sons over daughters. I am thinking about my birth. Unlike my five aunts, I am lucky enough to have a father like Ziauddin Yousafzai, who, unlike other fathers of that region, celebrated my arrival and had big plans and desires for me, going against the grain. I remember his unshakeable belief in education for all children, especially girls like me, while I began to grow up in Mingora, Swat, Pakistan, often known as the Switzerland of the East.

More than anything else, the greatest concern was the denial of education, particularly during the Taliban control in Swat in 2007 and onwards. It was a time when we lost our future, a voice, and the ability to uplift entire communities. Girls’ schools were shut down or blown up; girls were harassed and threatened, and life was lived in fear. Yet with the support of my father, I refused to accept defeat in education and freedom for myself and other girls like me.  At the age of almost 10 (in 2007), I initiated a campaign for girls’ education in Swat. In 2008, I started writing a BBC diary with the pen name “Gul Makai” (meaning Sunflower) which documented our daily life under the Taliban’s control. I stood up for myself and my other thousands and thousands of sisters in Swat and around the Pashtun culture with similar problems. I voluntarily participated in New York Times documentaries[1] on the issue in 2009, which took my recognition beyond the borders of my country. My efforts were recognized in 2011 when I received the National Youth Peace Prize. It made me a known representative of girls’ education in my country, particularly of Pashtun culture. To silence my voice for eternity, on October 9, 2012, I was shot in an assassination attempt in my school van on my way back home.  After the attack, I was airlifted to Peshawar Combine Military Hospital (CMH) where the grace of God my life was saved by Dr. Colonel Muhmmad Junaid and Dr. Mumtaz Ali. For further treatment, I was taken to Queen Elizabeth Hospital Birmingham UK, where with the grace of God I survived. Coming back from that attack only increased my determination to fight for the right to education every girl deserves, particularly in Pashtun communes, and at large across the world, which my assassins would have never thought of.

Although deeply tortured both in flesh and soul, my father nurtured and supported me staunchly on this journey. He was a rare progressive voice in a deeply patriarchal society. He didn’t consider me another daughter, tied in by socio-cultural norms (like his father, Rohul Amin[2], my paternal grandfather considered his five daughters), but he saw me as a child with unlimited potential and a unique gift of social welfare. He loved and encouraged my love for learning, supported my voice, and often reminded me of the power of education to bring change. He stayed committed to his idea of universal education despite criticism from the local Mullah, who claimed that his Khushal School poisoned the brains of children, particularly girls. His battle, which I view as a struggle against social oppression and a quest for justice, stoked my enthusiasm to promote girls’ rights and education. He provided me with a rigorous curriculum even when schools were closed, and he protected me from the fear and despair that could have crushed my path.

Although I have lost much, I am committed to struggling through hardships to ensure every girl has access to education. From my father, I learned that courage alone could encourage people to do what is seemingly impossible. He educated me that education is not only a privilege but a necessity for every child. This is a belief that I’ve based my life’s purpose on.

With inexhaustible hope and resilience, I have been fighting for girls and women’s rights to enhance justice and equality in communes across the world. Using the values my father gave me and the power of the millions of girls whose voices I represent, I will fight on till the last breath of my life to ensure girls’ education, empowerment, and equality across the world. This isn’t just a dream; it’s a promise.

Ali: You have inspired millions across the world for women’s rights and education. How do you picture contemporary women’s rights in traditional Pashtun society in Afghanistan and Pakistan?

Malala: Most Pashtun women live in rural areas where their lives are much different from the relatively privileged urban Pashtun women. Deeply rooted cultural and pseudo-religious traditions have left most rural Pashtun women unable to live independent lives. They are closely reined in concerning their freedoms, and almost every aspect of their lives is monitored by these traditions, which are neither Islamic nor constitutional. They are not even culturally authentic. Women in patriarchal Pashtun society frequently experience limitations and structural inequalities from birth. Women feel guilty about giving birth to girls because of society’s predilection and encouragement for sons because the birth of a daughter is rarely celebrated. While their brothers go to school, girls are often denied this opportunity. They remain at home to shoulder domestic responsibilities. Their freedom is further restricted by puberty; they are bound to their families, treated as the “honor” of the family, and held to rigid moral standards. Serious repercussions, especially violence, may result from breaking these standards. These customs put unnecessary pressure on male family members to uphold them, in addition to oppressing women at all costs.

Across their lifetime, from birth to death, many girls are regarded as less valuable than their boy counterparts, and this perception colors absolutely everything in their early childhood development and determines their performance in adult or later adult life. Their identity, behavior, and choices are set by strict societal norms, men, and older women in their community. These rules teach them how to live as subordinate women with stigmas contrary to how to live their lives as individual and normal human beings with aspirations and life goals. Rarely, do most of the girls get the chance to develop confidence and self-worth, or to believe they can do more in life. Instead, they grow up feeling that they are inherently less capable than men and thus are further psychologically marginalized. They internalize these beliefs, which affect every aspect of their lives—they are unable to pursue an education, choose whether to marry, or decide where to work or what career to follow. Their voices are stifled.

Educated urbanized Pashtun women are beginning to fight these inequalities, but most rural Pashtun women are caught in a system that deprives them of their due rights and traps their families in generations of low self-regard. Both cultural shifts and structural changes at the core of the fabric of society are needed to break this cycle. Building a more equitable future necessitates educating, empowering, creating opportunities for women leaders, and fostering autonomy for Pashtun women. This would not only benefit women but also men, as with the educated women/mothers, the coming generations would be much more balanced and freer from the curse of gender discrimination.

Ali: Indeed, worse still, it’s profoundly disheartening. What impact could socialization have on Pashtun women’s freedoms in daily lives?

Malala: Political and social liberation is almost inconceivable to a woman from this area, especially if she is Pashtun and living in a traditional setting. From such a young age, girls are taught to get permission for everything, so it’s no wonder that they become women whose entire existence depends on the guidance of others. However, this conditioning is on purpose, so that they fit within the provided framework of societal expectations.

They push girls into the background and teach them that family goals come first, not their own. They are trained to have domestic skills so that they can only become caregivers and homemakers. Against their personal or professional ambitions, they spend their days caring for elders, raising siblings, and running households, sacrificing.

At the same time, boys are encouraged to go out and explore, to find what they accomplish best, and to seek out education. It’s not only due to access to resources. Parents do not want to spend on girls as they expect more of their sons compared to daughters. Girls are groomed to follow and forsake, and boys are prepared to lead, pioneer, and grow. In this environment, girls’ confidence and critical thinking are eroded so that they cannot directly challenge restrictive norms. As time passes, they internalize their limitations, thinking that it is something internal to them and that they are less capable than their brothers, which in turn chips away at their self-esteem and reinforces their marginalization.

While the world is most often marked as dangerous to women, it can be adequately turned around by more women breaking out of those confines and showing that there truly is safety and autonomy in the world. To encourage change, we need to empower women to break these limitations and create opportunities for themselves and their coming generations.

We also must remember that marginalized groups such as transgender individuals have similar, or worse problems in Pashtun society. Many transgender people are disowned—turning their gender into a source of shame—and are denied social and financial support. Faced with violence, they often get abused and neglected. They live in poverty and in exploitative situations to stay alive.

Some countries have institutionalized structural forms of gender discrimination. Men should question patriarchal thinking, insist that women be paid equally, and push for their participation in decision-making, particularly in peace processes. We can build a more equitable society, government, and family structure to promote values of gender equality. To make gender equality a reality, men and women must work together.

Ali: What barriers do Pashtun girls face in the road to education and how do these create their future?

Malala: In rural areas, Pashtun girls face a monumental challenge when it comes to education. Education is extremely difficult for Pashtun girls because of patriarchal practices. Behind these barriers lie multiple physical, economic, cultural, societal, and misinterpreted religious barriers created by systemic inequality and tradition. Since going to school represents accepting one’s identity and goals, it is often viewed as an act of disobedience against traditional norms. For the many rural girls who just make it to school, it’s already an accomplishment on their part. The schools are far away from their villages and therefore long and unsafe commutes put them in danger. This gives an excuse to parents to keep girls at home and in safety, because girls are at risk of harassment, abduction, or violence in such situations. However, when schools are accessible, this problem of insecurity is lessened. Secondary schools are absent in many villages, or the few that exist receive little funding and are overcrowded and ill-equipped. The lack of female teachers discourages even more families from sending their daughters to school.

Cultural norms and misinterpreted religious principles also prevent girls from receiving an education. Early marriage is also common, forcing girls to exit onto a path where domestic responsibilities take precedence over learning, ending girls’ education precariously early. The problem is exacerbated when we add economic constraints—girls’ education is considered an ‘extra’ burden, and in families with scarce resources, sons are more likely to be sent to a school than daughters because sons are seen as future providers and girls as liabilities. Furthermore, the Taliban in Afghanistan also shut down schools, limiting the number of female teachers and restricting women’s ability to move. Meanwhile, these actions are based on distorted interpretations of cultural and religious values that contradict Islam, which teaches that men and women have an equal right to education. The current government of the Taliban in Afghanistan and their implicit cover in the Pashtun regions of Pakistan must be challenged and convinced of these principles.

The implications of these barriers are huge. Without education, Pashtun girls are trapped in a cycle of poverty and dependence in which they lack the potential for personal growth, independence, and participation in the community. But educating girls has far-reaching effects: it reduces poverty, improves health outcomes, delays marriage, stimulates economic growth, and supplies a sustainable future of gender equality to coming generations.

Breaking these barriers requires comprehensive solutions: provision of nearby schools facilitates safe transportation to schools, subsidizes education costs, and encourages positive shifts toward valuing girls’ education. Female role models can encourage families to see education as an asset and not a threat. Ultimately, more educated and empowered girls give birth to strong and inclusive communities.

Ali: What are the consequences of educational shortcomings for Pashtun women’s social rights and duties?

Malala: The social rights and responsibilities of Pashtun women are heavily affected by educational barriers. As a rule, these restrictions have been made worse by the Taliban’s influence on such roles for women in Pashtun society, where in the past they were part of decision-making and cultural life. The Taliban are distorting Pashtun traditions and Islamic teachings with their systematic oppressive measures and gender apartheid. They are also threatening those who advocate for gender equality and education for all. If women don’t have an education, they are helpless, invisible, and trapped in these cycles of dependence. Breaking this cycle is vital, and the way to do it is to empower them with education and autonomy. I repeat myself; the Taliban must answer this question: under which Islamic, which authentic cultural practice, do they prevent girls from going to school?

Ali: What roles do patriarchal Pashtun marriage customs in rural Pashtun societies play in women’s lives?

Malala: Choice in marriage is often denied to a woman in rural Pashtun society. A woman’s life is dependent on family honor and the self-selection of her partner can lead to disastrous consequences, like social ostracism, violence, and in extreme cases, honor killings. Women are frequently coerced into early marriages out of fear. It is expected of a “good girl” to be submissive, humble, and silent, to follow the decisions of her elders, even if they neglect her wishes or welfare. Women are reduced just to the roles of mother, sister, and wife after marriage, passing on the same cycle of oppression to their offspring. Only a collective change in cultural mindset—where men and women in patriarchal countries reassess the norms and rituals that perpetuate such injustices—can break the cycle of inequality that this structural wall locks generations of women in.

Vices like Swara (giving girls in marriage to resolve feudal disputes) and Walwar (amount collected by the girl’s family as a marriage price or security) take away women’s agency and reduce them to pieces of property in transactions among families. These traditions mean that women are deprived of their right to consent and further contribute to cycles of inequality and abuse. Although these practices have begun to diminish, they are still in practice in some deep quarters of Pashtun culture in Afghanistan and Pakistan. These harmful customs can only be broken by dismantling cultures’ misconceptions through the authentic Islamic principles of equality and empowering women with education and awareness. It is only then that Pashtun women can attain the autonomy and dignity they deserve.

Ali: What are the marital roles of a Pashtun woman? Please elaborate on them, with key details.

Malala: Many Pashtun women indeed marry young, around 15 or sometimes even younger (like some of my aunts and other relatives), with little preparation for the huge responsibilities they are going to go through. Thrust into environments where they are expected to cook, clean, and take care of their husbands, children, in-laws, and other relatives, these young brides though still in their adolescence, are expected to be perfect. They are under extreme physical and mental pressure, which takes a toll on their health. From here the story of their multifaceted suffering begins.

By the time, women enter their marital homes, they are expected to fit themselves in with the household dynamics without strife. Daily meals, cleanliness, and meeting in-laws’ needs must be dealt with, all being done under constant observation. On any perceived shortcoming, they are criticized, humiliated, and pressured. Women are not allowed to moan, groan, speak up, complain, advocate, fight, and even in some cases, smile. They are meant to be silent. However, the enforced silence in most marriages tends to isolate and emotionally exhaust women to the point that they feel useless and unappreciated in their families. The journey of their worthless worth begins.

It’s even more difficult for women who in rare cases work outside the home in conventional roles as teachers, nurses, doctors, etc. Her responsibilities are professional and in constant conflict with domestic responsibilities that they must juggle at the same time without any kind of support from their husbands or in-laws. And even if women contribute financially to their families in Pashtun culture, their primary role is to serve their family. We rarely excuse working women out of household chores to find the time to rest (self-care).

The cause of these different levels of housework is deeply rooted in gender roles that exempt men from doing housework and caring for children. Gender inequality is perpetuated through unequal division of labor, making it difficult to preserve women’s autonomy.

A common saying in Pashtun culture highlights this restricted reality: ‘To leave home, a woman leaves home only twice. When she marries and when she dies.’ This reflects the common way in which women are transferred from one form of family control to another, without any chance to design their roles and aspirations.

Another big concern is health, especially in rural areas where access to specialized medical care is extremely limited. Many female doctors are also lacking, and due to cultural taboos, women are not willing to see male doctors when they need reproductive healthcare. This has very serious consequences because many women don’t receive care for intimate health issues. Likewise, in rural Pashtun areas, a lack of skilled healthcare professionals at home births tends to be very dangerous for mothers and infants, leading to high rates of maternal and infant mortality. Throughout their pregnancy period, out of shame, women conceal their pregnancies, which takes away their right to rest, proper care, appropriate medical treatment, etc. In some cases, cultural taboos and poverty stop women from getting to the facility, even if one exists.

Given limited medical resources for birth control and cultural stigmas around family planning also mean that women often have no control over the timing or spacing of pregnancies. They wind up with closely spaced pregnancies that seriously harm their health. Together with chronic malnutrition, anemia, and the physical challenges of daily activities, many women suffer from seriously impaired health. Young brides usually have no relevant information and support in childbirth, breastfeeding, or postpartum care. This leads to poor health and lack of access to healthcare which continues in a cycle throughout their lives. Issues like these need to be addressed from a holistic approach.

Unjust marriage today limits Pashtun women’s autonomy, health, and well-being in ways many never envisioned. Marriage can, however, be redefined as a marital partnership in which spouses should have mutual respect and regard for one another and share responsibilities. To the best of my knowledge, Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) shared numerous responsibilities with his wife, Hazrat Khadija (RA), fostering a relationship grounded in mutual respect and care. This process is essential for creating a future where women can fully participate as active and valued members of their families and communities.

Ali: The link between economic independence and so-called empowerment is too often made. So, what challenges and barriers do Pashtun women face on their way to economic freedom?

Malala: An independent economic life for Pashtun women is still a daunting task as vital cultural, societal, and legal obstacles continue to exist that support gender inequality. To my knowledge, both Islamic law and, the constitution guarantee women the right to inherit property, own assets, work, to join the economy. But these rights are often theoretical rather than real. As a result, the theoretical nature of these laws is easily exploited by the stringent patriarchal pockets.

The biggest problem is the denial of inheritance rights, although both the Islamic principles and the constitution guarantee them. Women certainly have a share of family property under Islamic law, but societal/familial pressures usually stop them from claiming it. Women may not assert these rights due to pressure from families to do so, because it breaks family harmony, or is improper to do so as per tradition. When a woman tries to claim her inheritance, in most cases, there is ostracizing, verbal abuse, threats, or even physical harm. Consequently, male relatives continue to determine the financial management of their legally entitled property and resources, making women financially dependent and unable to support themselves or grow independent.

The labor of Pashtun women of rural communities, in agriculture, animal husbandry, and household, is unpaid and unacknowledged in economic terms. Tending to crops, raising livestock, and running small family businesses are viewed as continuations of domestic work, rather than productive economic work. The invisibility of women’s work supports the notion that men’s work is worth more. Likewise, sewing, embroidery, or food production are among the types of informal work for which they are poorly paid. Few of these activities bring in any money—which further entrenches women’s financial reliance on male family members.

There are few job opportunities for Pashtun females, such as teaching nursing, etc. Often culturally restricted and prohibited are professions such as law, business, entrepreneurship, and factory work. Women in these “socially unacceptable” professions still face resistance and lack of opportunity for advancement. A woman’s role is solely as a homemaker, beyond which she is discouraged from pursuing a career. For those who do make it into the prohibited workforce, it is marked as inappropriate behavior.

Most Pashtun women lack financial independence, and this has serious implications. They have no steady income nor access to resources; therefore they must rely on fathers, brothers, or husbands for their basic financial needs. Such dependence keeps them subjugated in their families and communities and makes them unable to make decisions about healthcare, education, or setting their personal goals. For instance, in most cases, a woman without money will neither be able to fund her healthcare nor pursue her education, contributing to her being stalled in furthering her self-improvement and future the way she desires. Their economic dependence makes it difficult for women to challenge oppressive social norms or demand their rights. If they do not have financial autonomy, they have very little power to advocate for themselves. Breaking down these barriers is critically important if we are to create a future where women are empowered to take their place as equals alongside men in deciding how to live their lives, and together how to shape their society as equal human beings.

Ali: For Pashtun women, what is the state of leadership, political participation, and representation?

Malala: At nearly every level of governance and of public life, most Pashtun women are significantly marginalized in leadership and politics. Women’s voices do exist, but they are absent in most spaces where critical decisions on important matters, women’s rights, and empowerment are made. Men overwhelmingly dominate leadership roles in local governance, national politics, and community organizations, effectively preventing women’s influence over policies and decisions relating directly to women’s lives. Likewise, Pashtun women are grossly underrepresented in politics. Those who hold positions on the quota system in councils or provincial or national parliaments, often come from powerful political families. Unfortunately, too many of these women act as symbolic figureheads. They wield little actual power and influence. These spaces are then invaded by political cultures that demand adherence to patriarchal norms and rob women of their autonomy by placing them in subservience to men, favoring the perspectives of men over women. Despite women obtaining political positions, the advancement of gender equality and the sponsorship of policies favoring women’s rights appear to be challenging and less realistic.

Unlike men, most women are never called to take part in making any decisions, which means that the policies and the laws made fail to address critical women’s issues like education, prenatal healthcare, employment, and protection from violence. Reproductive health services remain underfinanced or inaccessible. The dominant practice is that they are prevented from taking leadership positions and public-facing roles by all means—which limits their ability to rise in their circles and grow professionally.

Moreover, most women in leadership roles do not openly critique harmful gender stereotypes about women. Excluded from these spheres, this discrimination builds cycles of disempowerment that consume women to the point that they also push themselves away from the desire to serve as leaders. Egalitarian and effective decision-making requires the inclusion of women in governance. Many female leaders emphasize issues like education, healthcare, and community welfare which are important for women’s community success. The potential, however, needs to overcome deeply entrenched barriers to women’s political participation. Only once women have positions of true power, will these disparities be challenged and changed.

Anyway, unjust cultural norms, educational gaps, financial constraints, institutional barriers, the lack of role models and mentorship, etc. are the key hurdles to Pashtun women’s leadership and mainstream social roles which could be addressed with empowerment steps such as quotas for women, leadership training, genuine space in political parties for gender equality, public awareness campaigns, mentorship networks. These steps will create support networks for female leaders and activists, and encourage male allies committed to gender equality, who can offer guidance and resources.

Miranda Outman:  These interviews were conducted in 2015 and 2019. Since then, US forces have withdrawn from Afghanistan and the Taliban have retaken complete control. According to reports in US media, women are now forbidden from being visible at all (i.e., through windows) and from being audible (speaking to each other). What do you see as the origins of this repression, and what are the avenues for women’s resistance and liberation?

Ziauddin: Of course, this has been true since the Taliban reoccupied Afghanistan in August 2021 (for the last three and half years), Afghanistan has been the same Afghanistan it was in the previous regime of the Taliban before 2001. When the Doha deal was taking place in Doha Qatar in 2020, the Taliban had given the impression that they were a new Taliban with flexibility in their ideology specifically regarding minority and women’s rights. As everyone has witnessed across the globe, nothing like that appears. Everyone is disappointed. In the last three and a half years, the Taliban have established a system of gender apartheid in Afghanistan. On their first day in power, they dismantled the Ministry of Women’s Affairs and replaced it with the Ministry of Vice and Virtue, an institution that has been used to suppress women’s fundamental legal and religious rights in Afghanistan. Since then, the Taliban have banned girls’ education above sixth grade. As a result, girls cannot go to high schools, colleges, and universities creating an immense future void in female education in Afghanistan which will certainly affect the fabric of the country for coming generations in all walks of life. They have also banned females from studying health care courses in nursing and midwifery.  They have also banned women from working and going to public places such as public parks, shopping malls, gyms, etc. with Mahram (a term used for a close relative in Islam such as brother, father, or husband). In addition, all beauty parlors and saloons have been closed. The situation is equal to women’s annihilation. In other words, they have erased women from the social fabric of the public life of Afghanistan. So far, they have issued 205 directives and out of them, 121 directives are against females’ rights. Given this scenario, the UN and other concerned institutions and experts have begun calling the scenario gender apartheid in Afghanistan.

So, what is the origin of this oppressive system? Many Islamic scholars have questioned the Taliban’s interpretations for failing to align with the Holy Quran and Hadiths (sayings of Prophet Muhammad, Peace Be Upon Him). Instead, these interpretations appear to reflect their personal and patriarchal-centered views. As extreme hardliners, fundamentalists, and misogynists, they use these patriarchally biased interpretations to fuel the ideology behind their oppression. The rest of the Muslim world which consists of 55 or 56 countries and 1.9 billion population does not agree with the Taliban’s Sharia Ideology. So, it is not an authentic Islamic Sharia ideology, but their repressive ideology or mechanism that they use for misogynist repression and unjust control.

The Organization of the Muslim World League is an independent organization of Muslim Countries that aims to promote health, education, social structure, etc in Muslim countries. On January 11 and 12, 2025, it held a two-day conference in Islamabad Pakistan. Before the conference, under one roof, it held a roundtable session of renowned religious scholars and religious leaders from all sects and member countries. They collectively issued a three-point Fathwa (Islamic verdict) on women’s education which explains: a) education is the basic right of both boys and girls, b) girls/women should get all kinds of education without any conditions, and c) preventing girls or women form getting educations is anti-Sharia and Islamic act. Given the current situation in Afghanistan, the Fathwa directly hit upon the Taliban’s anti-women educational policies, although they claim to be the champions of Islamic and Sharia law. This fatwa validated that the rest of the Muslim World refuses to believe in the Taliban’s patriarchally biased interpretations of Islamic principles.

In this situation, what are the avenues for women’s resistance and liberation in Afghanistan? Indeed, they are limited. Because inside Afghanistan, the Taliban have fierce control of oppression. They can go to any limits to safeguard their principles. When the Taliban took over, women and gender activists protested but they were met with fierce resistance and were put in jails. So, resistance from inside Afghanistan is beyond imaging in this situation. If there is still some degree of resistance, it will fade away with time if the situation continues like this. But the only hope is the spirit of resistance outside Afghanistan. Afghan women activists have escaped all over the world such as America, England, Canada, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Norway, etc. Now, upon their shoulders lies the responsibility of resistance which they are fulfilling with all their might and zeal. With the weight of all mainstream and social media platforms, they are doing public talks, rallies, and conferences. Unfiltered, they are representing the issue on different forums to let the world know what is happening to women in Afghanistan.  They are using all possible tools and platforms such as reaching the International Criminal Court (ICC), the International Court of Justice (ICJ) UN, etc. to get the international community to declare the Taliban’s regime as gender apartheid, which is one of the heinous crimes against humanity. They are working hard, and commendable; they must be backed and supported on all possible fronts to fuel their courage.

 Outman: According to the mainstream Western representation, the Taliban’s repression represents a form of tradition, whereas changes advocated via the US intervention (unveiling, employment in the private sector) represent forms of progress. However, you paint a more complex picture of the past in Swat. Schools for girls that were open have been closed. The region’s history includes feminist heroines such as Malalai of Maiwand. Does the current situation of Afghan women reflect traditional practice? Is there an alternate feminist framing, beyond the tradition/modernity divide?

Ziauddin: The sad part of the story is that the Taliban encapsulate their ideologies in religio-cultural frames which indeed are not.  Certainly, the Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand Line in Afghanistan and Pakistan are conservatives, but they are not barbaric and radicals like the Taliban. Since the Soviet-Afghan war, the current fabric of Pashtun culture both in Afghanistan and Pakistan has been immensely influenced by the Taliban’s patriarchally biased ideologies which the Taliban call Islamic ideologies. In reality, they are neither genuinely Islamic nor cultural. Since they arrived in these regions in the 1970s, the deterioration of women’s rights has begun, a reality now evident to the international community. Before the 1970s, the Pashtun women were freer and had more autonomy. Unlike the Taliban’s ideologies, culture evolves and accepts positive changes. So, the current fabric of Pashtun culture both in Afghanistan and Pakistan is not the genuine Pashtun culture. It has severely been tempered by oppressive and misogynist Taliban ideologies.

After the US invasion of Afghanistan, the influence of the Taliban spread over the Pashtun regions of Pakistan severely affecting the regions like Swat, Waziristan, etc. In these regions, the Taliban took the entire governmental control into their hands banning girls/women’s moment, education. They also bombed hundreds of girls’ schools. The situation was more or less like the current Afghanistan. Malala’s shooting in 2012 was also the direct result of this wave. 

Although the Pakistan Military reclaimed direct control of these regions through several operations, their implicit presence and influence continue to shape the dynamics and evolution of Pashtun culture in Pakistan. Unlike in Afghanistan, females in the Pashtun regions of Pakistan have greater freedom to pursue education and other activities, particularly in urban areas. However, in more conservative rural pockets, Pashtun women still face numerous challenges, including restrictions on freedom of movement, access to education, choice in marriage, healthcare, empowerment, inheritance, and leadership. The key difference between Pashtun culture in Afghanistan and Pakistan lies in the stance of their governments. In Afghanistan, beyond the rigid Pashtun and Taliban-backed patriarchy, the Taliban government actively enforces and supports anti-women ideologies and policies. In contrast, Pashtun women in Pakistan face the weight of strict Pashtun traditions and an implicit Taliban-influenced patriarchy—which are not government-sponsored—affecting their personal, social, health, economic, leadership, and political rights. Ultimately, these restrictions are not inherent to Afghan or Pashtun culture. They are the extensions of the Taliban ideologies which they have added to the authentic Islamic principles as secondary or personal explanation sources.  It would be an injustice to confuse the authentic Islamic or Pashtun cultural principles with the tempered Taliban’s ideologies of gender apartheid which are the socio-economic and oppressive tools of their regime. The Taliban are both usurpers of Afghan/Pashtun and Islamic culture. Even inside the Taliban, there are internal differences between the Taliban groups and factions on females’  education and rights. Some of them, like Mula Sher Abbas Stanikzai and others, want girls to go to school, but their hardliner supreme leader in Qandahar Afghanistan, Mawlawi Haibatullah Akhundzada and his cronies, are against girls’ education at all costs.

Outman: In the leadup to the US invasion of Afghanistan, politicians practiced a sort of feminism of convenience in which they represented the liberation of Afghan women as a matter of humanitarian urgency. Today, the situation is (reportedly) worse than ever, and Western politicians appear to have lost interest. How do you understand the situation in terms of Western intervention, Taliban pushback, and feminist resistance? How do these three forces intersect? How do they structure the present situation and future possibilities?

Ziauddin: When the Taliban ruled Afghanistan from 1995 to 2001 until the U.S. invasion, the same restrictions were in place as they are today. During that time, they banned everything associated with aesthetics and beauty. Even they bombed the statues of Bamiyan province in Afghanistan. The Taliban are the same people with the same ideology only faces and characters change. At that time, they had Mula Omar, and now we have Mawlawi Haibatullah Akhundzada. When the US and its allies attacked Afghanistan, Laura Bush and some others claimed that they were there to iberate women from repression and radicalization. It was their political narrative that they cashed. They went after Osama bin Laden (1957-2011) and other strategic interests to dismantle Al Qaida. The liberation of women was a rosy excuse that never materialized with full and sincere effects. As a result, the situation for more than 20 million Afghan girls and women is now worse than it was before the U.S. invasion in 2001. That time the North was not in their control. Now the entire country is in their control. At that time, people hoped that the US and its allies’ invasion would improve the status of women in Afghanistan. But now even that fear has faded away as the Taliban has proved themselves as a formidable power against the US and its allies fearing none. The West and international community are mute, or they have lost interest in Afghanistan. Many countries are establishing bilateral links with the Taliban government. Some countries are after strategic depth while some are after resources, narcotics prevention, etc. But the issue of Afghan women is nowhere on any agenda who constitute half of the population of the country.  It is a crisis of human rights violations. It is a shame for the international community. At the Taliban’s demand, women’s rights defenders were excluded from last year’s second Doha Conference. At this stage, it appears the Taliban bullies the West. They get what they want. But this human rights crisis is raising question against the West and its invasion which they did under the pretext of liberation of Afghan women. 

I do not support military solutions, as Afghanistan has already endured immense destruction. The way forward lies with the men and women gender activists scattered across the world. Our role is to offer them genuine support. Organizations like the UN, ICC, ICJ, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), developed countries, and each of us must back the meaningful efforts and initiatives of gender rights defenders and activists. Given this situation, the OIC has a crucial role to play. It should denounce the Taliban, reject their legitimacy, and dismantle the legal basis for their anti-Islamic policies. Doing so would undoubtedly put pressure on the regime. If no meaningful action is taken for Afghan women, this phenomenon could set a dangerous precedent, paving the way for similar situations in other countries where radical factions exist.

Ali: Malala, as we conclude, how do you think the status of Pashtun women under the currently visible and invisible control of the Taliban in Afghanistan and the Pashtun belt of Pakistan should be improved?

Malala: The status of Pashtun women cannot be improved by a simple plan but only by a whole set of actions to combat the cultural, social, and structural barriers facing them. Transformation of this kind requires action on a variety of fronts, to be drawn forward by a commitment to equity and justice. They need to focus on education, economic empowerment, healthcare access, cultural change, and policy change. As a potent instrument for empowerment, education must be given top priority to ameliorate the lot of Pashtun women living under Taliban rule. Girls ought to have equal access to education so they can follow their aspirations and make valuable contributions to society. To increase women’s participation in decision-making processes and safeguard them from discrimination and violence, legal reforms are needed. To promote equality and empower females, it is also necessary to fight damaging gender norms through a cultural revolution. Through sustained activism and the development of supporting communities and families, Pashtun women may start to recover their rights and create a better future.

Moreover, misinterpretations of Islamic teachings must be rectified. Historical role models such as Khadijah (RA) and Aisha (RA) must be exemplified. Educational community awareness should be made a priority and women’s economic independence should be encouraged. Inheritance laws need to be enforced. Diversifying career opportunities need to be provided, and cultural norms about women must be revisited and re-examined because cultures are made by human beings and changed by human beings. The legacy of great Pashtun Women must be advocated for challenging the unjust cultural norms. Media campaigns that may also be engaging men should be intended to build spaces and mediums for women’s leadership and political participation.

We can establish a future where Pashtun women can lead, have their rights, and celebrate their contribution as Pashtun women on an equal footing with Pashtun men. Together we can transform family, community, and society. I also want to attract the attention of the international community to the fact that Afghanistan and Pakistan, particularly the Pashtun regions of Pakistan, are vulnerable to the emerging challenges of the climate crisis, which further put the women of these regions in danger, given their socio-agricultural and domestic roles.

On a concluding note, in Afghanistan, millions of girls above grade six have been out of school, colleges, and universities for more than three and a half years. Women face extreme gender apartheid, being banned from learning and participating in justice bodies, NGOs, UN jobs, businesses, media, recreational spaces such as parks, sports, international travel, freedom of expression, and more. Given the blatant violation of women’s rights in Afghanistan and the Taliban-influenced regions in Pakistan, I call on the international community to take the required measures to ensure the provision of inalienable rights to the women in these regions, their religion, constitution, and authentic cultural legacy guarantee them. 

In 2013, my father and I co-founded the Malala Fund to champion education for girls worldwide. We focus on countries with the highest number of girls out of school, including Afghanistan, Pakistan, Ethiopia, Tanzania, and Brazil. Our vision is to create a world where every girl has access to 12 years of safe, quality education, empowering them to shape their futures.

The Malala Fund, of course, was born out of our experiences. The journey our family and others have taken and the realization that when society transforms, opportunities are created and lives are saved served as its inspiration. Millions of girls are prevented from obtaining an education by systemic impediments, as evidenced by her experience and the global demand for girls’ education.

The Fund amplifies the voices of girls whose voices are silenced by poverty, conflicts, and gender inequality. It creates education programs, raises awareness, and collaborates with organizations around the world to tear down the barriers imprisoning girls at home. That’s especially true for war-torn regions, areas of poverty, and areas where lifestyles and freedoms are restricted like Afghanistan, the Pashtun belt of Pakistan, and similar communities.

We’ve learned that laws and policies are not sufficient for creating meaningful change. Transformation is about changing mindsets and calling out deeply entrenched social attitudes. If girls don’t feel valued and supported and encouraged to follow their desires, building schools or giving scholarships isn’t going to happen.

Through the Malala Fund, we want to reach out to girls who are denied the opportunity to learn and give them hope and the tools they need to make a difference that will last a lifetime the Malala Fund is a community cause that has been serving many girls to have overcome great adversity to become physicians, teachers, engineers, and community leaders, and we have witnessed incredible success stories. These demonstrate how investing in a girl’s education benefits everyone in her immediate vicinity. We are aware that educated girls will help their families end poverty cycles and, in the end, build more balanced societies that will benefit their nations. Fundamentally, the Fund conveys a straightforward yet impactful message: It’s universal and personal. We hope to use the Malala Fund to help as many girls as we can and move closer to a world in which education is a right, not a privilege. Not one girl should be left behind. Girls’ education, in my view, is the most rewarding phenomenon that significantly contributes to peace, equality, and justice. I hope that more people will join and contribute to this fund for girls’ education.

I hope this discussion inspires others to sit with it and contribute to the small- and large-scale shaping of their own beliefs. Change doesn’t have to begin on a global level; it may begin at home with the way we treat our sons and daughters and the customs we challenge inside our families. I am humbled to be a part of the larger movement for gender equality and am greatly inspired by the response that this message has received from people all over the world. There is still a lot of work to be done, and it will require effort from institutions, communities, and individuals.

Considering the critical importance of women’s education, I conclude by urging the international community to take decisive action to compel the Taliban to reopen schools, colleges, and universities for millions of girls above grade six in Afghanistan, which have remained closed for over three and a half years. This compels us to emphasize that the Taliban’s ban on girls’ education is neither Islamic nor constitutional; but is not even reflective of authentic Pashtun culture—it is purely a manifestation of radical patriarchy and a distorted interpretation of religion. While we are supporting secret schools and online education initiatives in Afghanistan, these efforts are insufficient. The international community must treat this issue with the seriousness it demands, as it jeopardizes the future of Afghanistan.

Ziauddin: In addition to the education ban, women in Afghanistan face systemic oppression, including restrictions on showing their faces or raising their voices. Of the Taliban’s 125 edicts, 85 specifically target the suppression of women and violations of their basic rights. Afghan women’s rights activists call this systematic oppression ‘gender apartheid’. In this regard, the Malala Fund, Malala, and I are jointly championing the campaign to have gender apartheid recognized as a crime against humanity. I call on Afghan men and the global community to stand with Afghan women in their peaceful struggle for their fundamental rights.

Disclaimer: Every part of this interview has been reviewed for accuracy. However, as a human, I may err. I, Imran Ali, take full responsibility for any mistakes, inaccuracies, or translation errors.

[1] In early 2009 the New York Times reporter Adam Ellick worked with Yousafzai to make a documentary, Class Dismissed, a 13-minute piece about the school shutdown. Ellick made a second film with her, titled A Schoolgirl’s Odyssey. The New York Times posted both films on their website in 2009. See also https://www.britannica.com/biography/Malala-Yousafzai.

[2] Rohul Amin was Ziauddin Yousafzai’s father, but he did not use the family surname ‘Yousafzai,’ which is the name of one of the largest Pashtun tribes in Pakistan and Afghanistan.